Introducing Talent Talks, the podcast where we dive into all things talent in the real estate, construction, and infrastructure world. From the boardroom to the building site, we’ll uncover the stories, insights, and people shaping our industry today. Our first series shines a spotlight on data centres, one of real estate's fastest-growing and most in-demand sectors.

In this episode, Sarah Davenport, Managing Director at Capstone, and Oli Coote, Data Centre and Real Estate Sector Lead, speak to Catriona Shearer, Global Head of Data Centre Consulting at JLL, as she shares her remarkable journey from sales and marketing across 10 different industries to leading data centre consulting at one of the world's largest real estate firms.

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You can read the transcript of the discussion below:

Sarah: 

Today, we’re joined on Capstone Talent Talks by Catriona Shearer, the Global Head of Data Centre Consulting at JLL and a passionate advocate for inclusive leadership. With a career spanning strategic consulting, client development, and industry advocacy, Catriona brings deep insight into what's driving change across the data centre industry. Thank you so much for joining us, Catriona.

Catriona:

Thanks for the invite. I appreciate it.

Sarah:

So, tell us how you got into the industry that is data centres, and real estate and construction.

Catriona:

I think like most people, my journey in was a little unconventional in that I originally had a sales career, which I loved enormously. And then I decided that I wanted to do something slightly differently. I was working in some turnaround environments in terms of going into a business, unpicking what makes it tick and putting it back together to make it more profitable and more appealing to clients. So I was doing all of the front-end work, and I really enjoyed it, but it had become really familiar to me. It was not as challenging as it used to be once all of the moving parts started to make sense.

I wanted to do something that had a little bit more variety. So I started looking for a more operational role in turnaround work. I had touched on operations consistently for several years, but it had never actually been in my job description or job title, and I found it literally impossible to get anyone to talk to me, let alone hire me for an operations role. So instead, being the mature adult that I am, I threw all my toys out of the pram and decided I was going to go self-employed to do it. If you won't hire me, I shall hire myself kind of attitude.

I reached out to the network that I had built over the past few years that I've been in sales, and did some really interesting work, and it was really varied. I was doing some day rate contracting with the pharmaceutical pharmacovigilance company around cost drivers, outsourcing and insourcing and all of the regulations that are behind pharmaceuticals. I did some sales and leadership training, some high-performance training, 1 to 1 executive coaching, and through all of this, discovered that what I really love to do isn't solve problems, which is what I thought I loved. I actually love building something because while I was having fun, I wasn't as fulfilled as I was when I was building businesses.

So I decided to go back into the corporate world so I could go back to making long-term investments in companies and growing something that was a bit more permanent, rather than dipping in and out of companies to have small impacts, but for shorter periods. And then COVID arrived and wrecked my business overnight, which was a joy. And I randomly ended up getting a phone call from a friend six months after COVID hit to say we've got this account and it could do with some love, you know, you could do it with your eyes closed. Shall I recommend you? And at this point, I'm looking at my mortgage and my bank balance thinking yes, please. I didn't even really ask what the job was. So I interviewed for the role, got it and on my first day in a data centre role was the day they handed me the keys. And were like, this is yours now.

Sarah:

Which role was that then?

Catriona:

That's how I moved into CBRE where I was the general manager for an account in the Southwest.

Sarah:

That is so random and extraordinary. And I think when I've spoken to people about you, what I hear is she gets it done. That you are a doer. 

So, when you were in your sales and marketing role, were you in technical environments?

Catriona:

No. So I've done a stint at Schneider Electric selling power systems. I fundamentally understood the critical environment in terms of its criticality, but I have no real familiarity with it at all. This is my 10th industry, so I move between industries purposefully because I really enjoy those first few months of knowing absolutely nothing. It's slightly sadistic. That's the bit that most people really hate, feeling like a fish out of water, knowing nothing about anything at the stage where you don't even know what you don't know. That's my favourite bit. So, I would move between industries to transfer all of the skills that I was confident I had, and I would learn to reapply them. But I would get all of that joy of a new industry and learning everything about it all at once at 100 miles an hour. And I loved it.

Oli:

And I guess that also gives you the opportunity to look at things just through a slightly different lens, because it's not like you'd come from 5-10 years in the data centre sector and you think well, this is what we would normally do, so let's do this. But actually, you're looking at this with a sort of 360-degree, rounded view that actually is underpinned by some of the work you did at Schneider, for example.

Catriona:

It's exactly that. And, so I have a bit of an allergy to the “we're doing it because it's the way it's always been done” mantra. That's a bit of an understatement actually. I've got quite a strong reaction to that because I'm quite a challenging, curious person. So it's very much in my nature to say why are we doing that then? And if you've got a great answer, great, let's keep doing it. But if you haven't, the chances of me poking it get significantly higher.

Sarah:

How does that go down? Because that is so valuable, and that's how you move. And I think the data centre industry is so fast-moving. 

How does that approach go down in a corporate environment?

Catriona:

You know the combination of the data centre industry and JLL is a really interesting one for me because in my previous roles, particularly the corporate roles, that skill that I have to unpick things has been very valued. But as long as it doesn't go “too far” and as long as I don't challenge the wrong person or cause anybody to lose face or feel that maybe I've questioned them it’s fine. And historically, I was quite poor at managing that. I'm a bull in a china shop when it comes to following my own curiosity, and I haven't done myself any favours. I've not really fitted in at previous corporates. Again, slight understatement. And so I've moved on, and in the back of my mind, there's always the expectation that my time at corporate is relatively limited because eventually I will question the wrong person because I cannot help myself. I have a very poor filter when it comes to self-reservation. So JLL in the data centre industry is an interesting mix because JLL actively looked for me because of those skills, and they're the only company I've ever worked for that positively encourages more of that behaviour.

There's a distinct lack of ego that goes with working at JLL in the data centre team in particular, because the whole point, our brand, our USP, the reason we're in the market is to bring new thinking and intelligent ways of working and not to repeat the way it's always been done. You know, we're not the oldest player in the market by any means. So, trying to do it the way it's always been done makes no sense to us as individuals, let alone as a brand. And oddly, the data centre industry has received that extremely well. When you think of a process-driven organisation that's fundamentally engineering, the opposite would be true. It's been a bit of a revelation, really.

Sarah:

Do you feel that this is where you were meant to end up or are you going to be going for an 11th industry?

Catriona:

I guess one of the reasons I feel so strongly about talent is that I believe it should be fundamentally based on happiness. So, what makes me really happy is building something following my curiosity, making a positive impact in people's lives, as well as in corporate organisations or businesses. Bottom line, however you choose to look at it, you know, the results of impact. And the data centre industry is currently where I can do all of those things to my heart's content. At some point, that may change. I may seek variety, my home circumstances might change. Anything can cause that drive for a change. And because I believe that talent is fundamentally based on happiness, I think you should follow your happiness. And if that means this industry, great. And if it doesn't, also great.

Oli:

Often, the talent conversations that we end up having are centred around people having certain technical capabilities, which clearly will be important. But also, data centre-specific experience as well, which sometimes can be quite hard to reconcile. I can imagine you've experienced that yourself.

Outside of actually having data-centre specific experience, what do you feel are the ideal traits and behaviours that people need to bring to the table?

Catriona:

So I think that the industry has historically not done itself too many favours by having an over-dependency or over-promotion of the importance of an engineering degree or an engineering qualification. And that's not to diminish the importance of those things, but if you over-prioritise them, you end up with a homogeneous group of skill sets and thinking, and that isn't how you build high-performing teams. We also have to remember that anecdotally, half of all roles within the data centre industry are not engineering and they don't need to have an engineering background in order to perform extremely well.

You do need to understand the industry, but that's true of every industry. You need to understand the nuances. And I think historically data centres have seen themselves as quite different, and the industry does have its own nuances, but it’s not the dark arts. You don't need to be in the industry for 2 1/2 years, I think that’s the average for an entry-level job. You don't need that just to enter it. It makes no sense. What are you supposed to do sit there and stare at everyone for 2 1/2 years until you're allowed to touch anything? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And I was hired originally through a set of circumstances. The account they wanted me to work on, the changes that needed to happen were actually about people. It didn't matter that it was in a data centre. It was a people-oriented exercise. So they hired somebody who was good with that.

The next role I moved to was a mobilisation role within the same company, supporting a brand new transition. And what they needed was an organisational structure and some leadership skills. After that, I moved to work for Telehouse as the head of operations. They didn't need another engineer. What they needed at that point was someone who could evolve the culture, bring everybody together, make it a bit more efficient, maybe make some of the processes and checks a little more robust. Again, everything that's in my wheelhouse. None of that needed data centre experience. And I'm, I think 5 or 6 years in at this point, and I still don't necessarily need data centre experience to be great at my job. My job is going and talking to customers about their problems and what they need, and simply translating that into whether or not we can help. It helps that I have a data centre understanding, and it helps that that's from an operational perspective. But it's not completely necessary to be brilliant in this industry.

Oli:

Yeah. And given the pace that everything's moving at, if we're constantly trying to work to those parameters, we're never going to bring people in. So, it's a challenge. But we keep banging that drum, and hopefully these things start to shift, don't they?

Catriona:

Those are skills that I look for when I hire in this industry. We're currently hiring for a role in my team, and we're not necessarily looking for someone with a data centre background; if they have one, great. But actually, what we're looking for is for somebody who has an unending curiosity and effectively wants to become a subject matter expert. And that's what we've built our business on. But you can't just continue to hire subject matter experts. Sometimes you have to grow them. You want that balance of perspectives and age and demographic and background, and they don't naturally exist. So, we've got some roles that we've hired as fully made SMEs and some that we're growing ourselves. You can't grow an SME from an SMA. That's completely backwards. So, you do have to understand the skills and the characteristics you're looking for in order for someone to grow into the role that you want for them in 2, 3, or 4 years’ time.

Sarah:

This is one of the questions that we always ask our guests, which is around influence. I'm a firm believer, maybe selfishly from my own career, that there are people or moments in our careers that we might not be aware of at the time. It's only when you retrospectively look back that you realised they have been extremely influential, usually for the positive and that then moves on with you through every role and every moment that you have and impacts how you operate yourself. 

What's been the biggest influential moment or person in your career, Catriona, and how does that stay with you?

Catriona:

I used to work for a company called Lyrico. They're a business-to-business stationary company. It's a commodities business. And throughout that, that's the company I've stayed with the longest. I was there for six years. I had three roles in six years. Absolutely lovely company and I would go back in a heartbeat. Loved working there. I still go on mini breaks with my old team. It had that family feel, but not in an over-reliant, toxic co-dependency way. You're working for each other, and it really feels like that.

It was during my time there that I understood that my curiosity is actually more like that I enjoy going out of bounds of my role. And if you look at one influencing factor in my career development, it's that I was encouraged early to go out of bounds. I was allowed to co-train on the new starters’ induction. I was allowed to take new people out for the day when they first started. All things that weren't in my role but allowed me access to opportunity, access to new conversations, access to other people's perspectives, and that consistently going out of bounds or having the courage to utilise my curiosity in that way incredibly formative. And if I look back now, I think I was around 24 at the time, and had that not been encouraged or allowed then, I'm not completely sure I would have been as poorly behaved as I am today in terms of staying in my lane, because I really don't. I'm really terrible at staying in my lane. And what that leads to is high-performing teams over and over again. It leads to a level of flexibility and an attitude of welcome along. Bring everything you've got. Let's take a look at all of it. If you're great at it, let's do more of it. If you're not, should we ignore it? Should we change it? Well, let's figure that out. But it brings that attitude of let's find out.

Sarah:

Do you think that's where your belief that careers should be fundamentally about happiness has come from as well?

Catriona:

No, I think that's possibly just the way that I'm wired because it's not just at work. You won't find me feeling obligated in my personal life either. Essentially, if it's not fun, I'm not doing it. Which makes me sound incredibly self-centred. I'm not, I promise. But yeah, I honestly believe that happiness, your happiness should come first. And you know, when you work at a corporate, that organisation doesn't have your happiness at the top of their to-do list. One, because it's not possible, and two, it's not practical. So it's entirely up to you to make sure that you put your happiness at the top of your priority list, not to encourage breaking the law or anything that is gross misconduct or immoral, but your fundamental happiness in terms of your fulfilment. Are you getting access to what you enjoy doing every day? Are you contributing meaningfully? All of those things that form true human happiness are really valuable for you to understand about yourself and for you to advocate for.

Sarah:

How does that impact your leadership style then?

Catriona:

That's a great question. I think my leadership style probably isn't for everyone. If you really enjoy staying in lane and you're of an energy type who requires a significant amount of structure and doesn't really thrive with spontaneity, I think I can be a challenging leader. So immediately, you missed this thrive in spontaneity. Now I do have an underpinning of structure and everything I do because we're looking to build something better than we found it. So there is that underpinning of structure. But I genuinely think that agility, creativity and spontaneity are a fundamental part of continuous improvement, whatever corporate phrase you want to wrap around it. But the only way you get better is if you try new things. I do believe in trying things and failing fast, you know, let's find out. And if it didn't work, let's call it and we'll move on.

My leadership style doesn't allow any room for blame or recrimination. It's toxic, it's not helpful. It doesn't move anybody forward. There's no need for it. But there is a need for a high level of integrity and a high level of professional honesty. Those things, I think for me, go hand in hand. I realise that my leadership style is high energy. There is a huge element of trust and responsibility I put on the people who work with me. I rarely consider myself to be the boss. Don't get me wrong, I always want to be in charge, but I don't necessarily see myself as the boss. And I think that comes out when I talk about the team I work with, with the people I work with, when I introduce my team to other people because I want them to feel ownership of what we're doing together. So if you really do just want to do your job, grow maybe incrementally and step and repeat, I could imagine my leadership style being somewhat terrifying.

Oli: 

So having eyes open to opportunities and solutions and things like that. As opposed to blinkers on.

Catriona:

Yeah. Bring it. It doesn't matter how crazy it sounds. We will talk about it, and if we think that there's something in there, we might explore it for a year before we try it, or we might just sketch it on a piece of paper and go for it. And all of that is about teaching the team, risk management, mitigation and understanding of consequences. All of the things that you need to be a high performing professional in any career, all of those critical thinking skills, you need to practice. But if you never get access to them, how do you get to practice them?

Sarah: 

You need to trust the environment and fail within that. And that's OK. That's part of that growth. So what are the conversations that you're having with your clients? What are the topics? How are things evolving from a talent perspective?

What I'm trying to understand is what are the problems that you are solving for your clients and how have they evolved over time?

Catriona:

I’m going to answer a slightly different question, I’ll answer a question about the reason my business exists. So data centre consulting, I believe, exists because there are gaps in other people's companies in terms of the talent profile that they have. I think that's why consulting exists within our industry. However, the consultants that you often get aren't like traditional consultants, so they're not necessarily doing large target operating model projects. They're more likely to be doing subject matter expert work. And the way that we frame our business is to say, we'll bring you an SMA, we'll help you close that gap, but we want to leave you better than we found you. We want to equip you so that you don't have the same gap in future. And that can be, we leave skills behind, we leave processes behind,  something completely finished and smoothed off for the client. But the point is, we don't want to go back and do the same work for them again. We want to help them evolve and close that gap. And part of that, the origin of that work in the first place, is the client being able to say I've got a gap.

So having conversations about talent and how it's ok to have gaps in an industry that's growing this quickly, that has always historically run lean. Wonderful euphemism for horribly understaffed. That lean organisation is never going to be able to keep up with organic growth, let alone the growth rates that we see in this industry. You've got businesses doubling in size every two to three years. If they started off as small to medium-sized enterprises five years ago, they're never going to be able to recruit quickly enough, even if this industry itself didn't have a talent shortage. So we see our role is to go into businesses and use subject matter experts to strengthen what they already have, and ideally upskill them. We do the same internally with JLL. So our business model as a consulting team is to use the wider organisation. For example, if we win an opportunity to talk to a client about some sustainability-related issues, we will take our sustainability consulting team with us. So you get your data centre team and the consulting sustainability consulting team, and we'll go in together to address the issue that the client may have. The client gets 2 SME’s as a minimum instead of one all-rounder because we're looking to close that gap with them and for them. Now the benefit for us internally is that we're upscaling our sustainability colleagues, and they're upscaling us. Everything that we do in this industry is designed to leave more knowledge than it found.

Sarah: 

That's the ultimate consulting solution, isn't it?

Catriona:

Yeah. If you effectively make yourself redundant because you've truly helped solve a problem instead of contributing and leaving. That's not what we're trying to build. That's not the point. There's no legacy there.

Oli: 

And coming back to that idea that no idea is a silly idea and let's be open-minded and creative with our thinking to solve problems for clients and fill those gaps, in terms of that, I would see it as being immensely useful, clearly at any time, but particularly in this sector at this time, as things are changing so quickly. And if you're unable to think creatively or if you’re not willing to, then it makes it much harder to provide that kind of service that you outlined. 

What are your thoughts, given your role, on some of those forces that are currently at play, that are reshaping the sector? What are you seeing in terms of gaps that are now opening up that maybe didn't exist before that you're able to support?

Catriona:

The driver for those gaps is usually one of two things. It's either legislation or customer demand and certainly in terms of sustainability, structure and processes. But the third element to that is really climate. So the design changes we've seen have been because of client demand for AI, but they've also been because we were historically designing data centres to operate at a maximum 35° in the UK specifically. That is not an appropriate temperature to have as your max anymore. So, as well as the normal legislation, the IEA governing body is making us do it, or there's a fee payer, a customer, making us do it. There is also a necessity that we've never seen before in terms of the way the world is literally changing.

The fourth element to that now becomes people and talent. Where historically you had the ability to go to market and close gaps or grow, it's simply not there. So what's become some really simple demand drivers in terms of change management has now become multi-complex in terms of the origin of the request and how you have to go about solving it. Now, in terms of data centre design and solving a talent issue, that's almost entirely creativity. So you're having to solve new problems using skills that the industry has never traditionally had to rely on. And it does cause a euphemistic pinch point.

Oli: 

Yeah, especially when you consider the time frames involved, whatever you're doing today from a design perspective, for example, is only going to be realised three to five years down the line as to whether that's what you need. So all of these things need to be factored into creating maybe a flexible kind of approach to being able to be agile.

Catriona:

And that's what we see. So you see large developments going up across Europe, the Middle East and Africa, and those developers are leaving it to the last possible minute to make a final decision, let alone actually fit anything out in terms of what goes into the grey space that directly impacts the white space. Those decisions aren't being made until leases are signed and the lease holder informs you of what they want, whether that's air cooling, liquid cooling, you know what type of liquid cooling, if you are going for liquid cooling, all of those things are TBC. And when you have a development timeline exactly like you say, from the moment you decide you're going to do it, to it being built three to five years, really on average, but you've got new products being released every 18 months. That is not something that you can match up. It's a real challenge but we'll see. The exciting thing for me is that all of these things make us on the absolute cutting edge of what's possible, and I absolutely love that. Being so connected to changes that impact the entire world and being at the forefront of making those things possible, it still now gives me goosebumps.

Sarah:

Yeah, that's really impactful. And I think why we need people now more than ever, because it's never evolved quicker and it will never evolve as slowly as this.

And that's why I was keen to talk to you about your Women's Speaker series because you're encouraging all of us. So how did you conceptualise that, how did that come about, and what’s the impact that that's having?

Catriona:

So it came back because I was attending day centre events as a new entrant to the industry, and the panels that I was going to, I found interesting and enjoyed them. And then I went back the second year, and it was very similar, if not the same people, saying very similar, if not exactly the same things. And I was a bit foxed as to why the same things were being said in an industry that was moving that quickly. And then I would have side conversations with women I'd met in the industry through friends or networking. And the conversations I was having were so interesting. I started to wonder why those people were on the stage instead of these people. And so anecdotally, I started to ask pretty much every woman I met they weren’t on stage. When you ask why, they invariably say I've never done it and the first time I do it is not going to be up there in front of my industry. Oh, OK, so we've got organisers who don't know that you exist. They don't need to ask you. And we've got a group of women who are totally capable of doing it, but won't because it'll be the first time they ever do it.

So I thought I could solve those two things all by myself. I decided to use a bit of JLL’s real estate, one of the offices, and invite 12 women that I'd met and convinced to give this a go. And I asked a very powerful leader within JLL to be an expert for the day or for the morning to say, here's what I think you could do. Here's some feedback on what you did today. Here's how I think you can improve, genuine 1-1 feedback. So the format is there are twelve women. They're split into three groups. Of those three groups of four women, one acts as the moderator. I supply the questions about networking, mentoring or development, and that moderator asks the other three people in their group, who have to sit at the front of the room on my now famous uncomfortably high chairs, each of those questions. And the point isn't what they say. That's why they're generically neutral topics. The point is, they experience that fear, the breathlessness, the uncomfortable sweat, the fact that you can't get on or off those stalls without feeling like you may end up in A&E. All of those things are experienced in a room full of people who really want you to do well and are there to give you feedback.

So, I started doing it, and it went really well. Everybody who came said very openly to me, I don't want to be here, OK, but you're here now. And then at the end of it, almost everyone in the room said, can you do that again? But can you make it more difficult? And I thought ok, that's really interesting because they didn't think they were going to enjoy it. And that moment of discovery about yourself is incredibly addictive for me. So running these sessions is just wonderful to see the impact that that opportunity has on the women in that room. They have an opportunity to discover whether or not they like something that you wouldn't ordinarily get the chance to do unless it's in front of 50 people. And often, particularly if you're at the supply chain end, your business has to pay for you to have that opportunity, to have that access to a panel, and you're not going to encourage your company to pay for something you don't think you want to do.

Sarah: 

Were you then a panellist for data-centre dynamics after that, or was that before?

Catriona:

So I really should have set this up before a panel was inflicted on me, but I didn't; it came up afterwards. So my boss's boss at the time was our CEO, Sue Asbury Price. She was asked to do 2 panels at an event in Cannes, Cloud Global Congress. And I was volunteered as her stand-in because, quite near the event, she couldn't make it. And when your boss's boss tells you to do something, you just sort of nod, right? And again, what's the worst that can happen? I'm sure it'll be fine. Pure terror. And my kneecaps sweated. I don't know if you knew that your kneecaps could sweat. They can. It's a thing. So I did the first panel during the day and don't really remember it. We did loads of prep for it. Think it went relatively well in that I didn't drop the F bomb and didn't get fired. They were my lines of success.

Sarah: 

Win.

Catriona:

Win. And then I did one in the evening with the Women's Tech Forum, at which point I decided that I was so sweaty from the day that what, you know, I'm all out of professional filter at this point. I'm just going to go up there, and I'm going to be myself. And if they don't ask me back, I would understand. And so I think because I went at it without a corporate filter, it went better than it ever could have in terms of I just was very much myself. My experience across those two panels was so entirely different that it was one of the things that inspired the opportunity for other people. Because whilst I don't think I'm ever going to be someone that really loves being on stage, I much prefer being at the side with a clipboard, making everybody else do it. But there's definitely a level of enjoyment that comes from having people respond to your life experience. And so having more women have that experience and have more women understand that there's a room full of people, if not an industry full of people, that wants to hear their voice again. That was one of the goosebump moments for me of, oh, I think I understand why it's as important as it is. It's not just a matter of it should be balanced, this can impact the way that you look at yourself, let alone the impact it can have on your career. If you're more visible, the confidence it can give you is the ability to stand up and openly say no. I want to take up space, and I'm confident in my voice. And if you don't like it, I get it. But I'm not only entitled, but I'm qualified to be up here.

Sarah:

I think that is a lesson that I don't think is exclusively for women, but I think it's very typical for women that we are experiencing quite late on in our careers because that was never the mould. That was never how it went. And that's why I was really keen to get you on the podcast: You've put your head above the parapet, and you're bringing others along with you. And so it's not just the call to action, it's the action bit of that that's important. And I think it's having a really powerful impact. I'm glad it's having a positive impact on you, but it's also significantly having an impact on so many other people. And I think it's really important to hear those stories and that you're enabling others to fail safely. And that is part of the stretch, that's the moving bit that we need.

Catriona:

Then there's a second part to it where I then make everybody who's ever been on one of my sessions agree to go on the list. That goes to Europe's event organisers. So I share that list of people, and they have to opt out. Now, I originally let them opt in. Now I'm like, no, you have to opt out. And I share that list with the event organisers and gently harass them into getting in touch with the women on the list, so that they connect with them on LinkedIn. They can have a look at their bios, and they are actively seeking out some of these women to come and talk at their events. And we're actually seeing them show up on stage confident. Invited, not having to pay for the space, and they're being invited because they are respected and somebody wants to hear what they have to say.

Sarah: 

Yeah, that's brilliant. 

Oli: 

You obviously hit the nail on the head with that first session that you ran there because you had it set up perfectly for people to feel uncomfortable enough that they're feeling challenged. And this is outside of my comfort zone and all of the rest of it. But then at the end of it, not only did they want to have another session, but they wanted it to be harder and be challenging. So in terms of reaching that objective, you’ve absolutely smashed it and look at what it's achieved now. It's amazing.

Catriona:

It is. And the recent event we hosted the 3rd of July that Louisa Buckley at Schneider helped me engineer, that collaboration came about because I couldn't find a way to source microphones, cameras and lights. It was just beyond my means. I couldn't try as I might, I couldn't talk anyone into paying for it. And then Louisa said, look, as a business, Schneider Electric, we've got a real drive and desire to support this kind of initiative. Let me go and ask to see if I can convince someone. And she came back to say, yeah, we'll do it. So, Schneider hosted. We had 10 women on stage who had been at a previous one of these events.

So anyone who'd been to season 1, I invited ten of those to be the panellists for season 2. And then everyone else in the audience was someone else who had already been on Season 1, so they all understood the format. They were all there to give feedback because they know that an active part of the session is for everybody to give feedback and for them to feel part of the experience. The other side of it was that I still got an expert to give those 10 panellists 1-1 feedback in the room. Now it takes enormous courage to be given feedback in front of 30 people. I hope those ten women have now appreciated quite what the amount of courage it took to go up there, prepared as they were to then have to experience 1 to 1 feedback on camera and in front of 30 people, because that meant the entire room learnt what they learnt. The power of that and the scale was joyful.

Sarah: 

I have to say, I think that takes courage to give that feedback as well in that environment. That's amazing. That's really amazing. I think one thing I could literally sit here for hours and chat because this is we are going deep into it and it's absolutely fantastic.

I suppose the one thing Oli and I are really keen to hear from all of our guests is what are you most excited about for the next five years in our industry?

Catriona:

I'd love to say I've had a recent epiphany, but it's the same thing I was excited about when I first wandered into a data centre, which is that this feels like the beginning. It feels like the absolute beginning of something amazing. And it does. You know, I've said it a couple of times, I get goosebumps. This industry is mission-oriented, purposeful, and has a real impact on the world. They're all three things that I love to be part of and to contribute to. And being part of an industry that does that on a global scale, it touches absolutely every single person's life in some way. You cannot escape reality today from a data centre service perspective. So being part of that, but knowing it's right at the beginning, I find incredibly inspirational, very exciting, and it's probably what's going to keep me interested for the foreseeable.

Sarah: 

Yeah, great. We don't want that 11th industry. Catriona, we have absolutely loved talking to you today, hearing your story, but also hearing your insights into what's got you to where you are today, and how you're impacting other people in the industry, and so generously. So, thank you so much for joining us.